Week 7 – Thursday
2/26/09
People – Campus vs. Church
I am thinking about the difference between getting along with people at college and getting along with people in a church, and I am getting a little nervous. Things are going to be very different next year. Anyway the first differences I see are:
1) At college everyone is my peer. That will not be the case when working in a church setting, in fact when working with youth ministry most people will be dramatically younger (the students) or dramatically older (sponsors, board, other pastors, parents of students). The people that I hope will bend to my leadership over the youth ministry will have been around the block a few more times than I have; they will know more about life than I do. (Hopefully being married already will level the field a few millimeters in their eyes).
2) At college those over me are paid to help me. Here at IWU I pay a nice big tuition, and a portion of that tuition then goes into my professor’s pockets. In return I get their time, their knowledge, their resources, and their patience. (Not saying you are only patient because of the money.) In the world after college the pastors and parents are not paid to look out for my development, to do their best to make sure I succeed. I am expected to succeed because they pay me.
3) At college the niceties only need to last four year. Despite the expected short life span of youth pastors, you have to prepare your relationships for the long haul. When you meet someone at college that you don’t like but are forced to work with it is usually just for a short stint of a project or a semester class, and at the most, they may follow you around for the four years you attend. At a church, those people you don’t like may be there the entire life of your ministry. Plus, as the pastor you are expected to meet all their annoying qualities with grace, patience, and the love of God (even those only God could love.) relationships have to go beyond niceties and develop into a ministry with others that edify not only them, but your own life.
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Week 7: Church vs. Campus>>>Trenton Prieshoff
1. I think the most blatant difference is the age gap. On campus, we have very few interactions with anyone very much older or very much younger than us. In church, however, we will need to be adept at communicating with everyone, from the very elderly to the smallest children.
2. Another one which is very closely related to the first is that on campus we are around people who have many of the same views and ideals as us. While we might all disagree about how to go about doing anything, because we are from the same generation, we generally agree on several key distinctives of the postmodern generation (ie, evangelism should not be forced and needs to involve relationship, tolerance and peace are of utmost importance) In the church, we will confront people of many worldviews, even ones we don't yet understand as the next generation is coming up.
3. Shared experience is another. On campus, we can (if we wanted to) strike up a conversation with anyone because if nothing else, we all have very specific shared experiences (ie, we don't like Baldwin, McConn is great, chapel was alright today, homework, professors, living in the dorms, UNV-180, etc.). In the church, we do not spend every waking moment with the same groups of people. We have to be very deliberate in creating shared experiences in order to have the same comeraderie.
4. On campus, there is a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. Because it is a generally small campus, you can't avoid someone you have a problem with forever. In the church, there is also a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. However, because of the limited interaction, that conflict can brew much longer to a point that when it finally does explode, it is nearly impossible to manage.
5. A common element is this: People are people. If you are bad at confronting people now, you will be bad at it in the church. If you cannot mediate conflict now, you will not be able to mediate it in the church. Everyone likes free food and everyone likes a chance to get out.
2. Another one which is very closely related to the first is that on campus we are around people who have many of the same views and ideals as us. While we might all disagree about how to go about doing anything, because we are from the same generation, we generally agree on several key distinctives of the postmodern generation (ie, evangelism should not be forced and needs to involve relationship, tolerance and peace are of utmost importance) In the church, we will confront people of many worldviews, even ones we don't yet understand as the next generation is coming up.
3. Shared experience is another. On campus, we can (if we wanted to) strike up a conversation with anyone because if nothing else, we all have very specific shared experiences (ie, we don't like Baldwin, McConn is great, chapel was alright today, homework, professors, living in the dorms, UNV-180, etc.). In the church, we do not spend every waking moment with the same groups of people. We have to be very deliberate in creating shared experiences in order to have the same comeraderie.
4. On campus, there is a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. Because it is a generally small campus, you can't avoid someone you have a problem with forever. In the church, there is also a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. However, because of the limited interaction, that conflict can brew much longer to a point that when it finally does explode, it is nearly impossible to manage.
5. A common element is this: People are people. If you are bad at confronting people now, you will be bad at it in the church. If you cannot mediate conflict now, you will not be able to mediate it in the church. Everyone likes free food and everyone likes a chance to get out.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Week 7 Essay - People - Church VS. Campus
Week 7 Essay – People – Campus VS. Church
Feb 26th, 09 Anton Folz
Within college and church people involvement, there are main key areas in which the two differ. Three areas in which one is able to clearly see how relationship people on a college campus is far different than that of church relationships would be in the areas of proximity, length of relationship, and responsibility. In each of these three areas, one may find it much harder to “get along with” people in the church, than it ever was to get along with the people that you attended college with. Although there may be some in your college that also attend the church that you work at, that does not negate the fact that there are some large barriers or mental blocks that one is going to have to be able to understand that get over if they want to be effective and last in fulltime ministry.
Looking first at proximity of relationships, one is able to recognize that while they might be living in a rather small community of college students on a campus, they may be able to avoid people that are hard to get along with even easier and with less consequent than that of a person on staff at a church. Once you are in a church ministering, you are connected to those people that have been entrusted into you care, and you are not able to simply avoid them as you would someone that you disliked on a college campus. It is easy to blend in, and even at times pretend not to notice a person that you do not want to talk to on a college campus, but if you do that in a church it could mean your jobs because of the loss of favor with the people.
Secondly, one is able to see that length of relationships in churches and college campuses is often far different. When you are on a college campus, you are generally working off of a presupposition that everyone has only known everyone else for three or four years at the most. On the other hand, in church there may be families that have been a part of the church for several generations. By having longer lengths of time to work with, it can mean that strong ties are or can be made. Some of which might be helpful and glorifying, and others that are negative and destructive. When we are in a church setting, we are faced with the obligation to get along with all people, because most likely they are not going anywhere unless they move or gain a different job.
Lastly, looking at how responsibility plays a role in the difference in people relations in both settings, it can be noted that God has assigned a pastoral minister to these people. As a pastor is called to work with a congregation, they take on the responsibility that God has placed these people into their care, and thus their physical and spiritual well being is in their hands. Pastors cannot run and hide from those that are entrusted into their care, and thus church relationships can be very tough and yet a necessary aspect of their job.
In conclusion, it seems that relationships in churches are often far more difficult to work with and maintain because of the reasons that have been listed. As a pastor takes on responsibility for a group of people, they must be willing and adaptable to work with whomever it is that they have been given to work with and minister too. God loves all humanity, and He calls ministers to provide spiritual guidance for all people no matter if they are annoying or not. Thus it seems that church relationships are far more difficult than college campus ones due to their length, responsibility level, and proximity in living area.
Feb 26th, 09 Anton Folz
Within college and church people involvement, there are main key areas in which the two differ. Three areas in which one is able to clearly see how relationship people on a college campus is far different than that of church relationships would be in the areas of proximity, length of relationship, and responsibility. In each of these three areas, one may find it much harder to “get along with” people in the church, than it ever was to get along with the people that you attended college with. Although there may be some in your college that also attend the church that you work at, that does not negate the fact that there are some large barriers or mental blocks that one is going to have to be able to understand that get over if they want to be effective and last in fulltime ministry.
Looking first at proximity of relationships, one is able to recognize that while they might be living in a rather small community of college students on a campus, they may be able to avoid people that are hard to get along with even easier and with less consequent than that of a person on staff at a church. Once you are in a church ministering, you are connected to those people that have been entrusted into you care, and you are not able to simply avoid them as you would someone that you disliked on a college campus. It is easy to blend in, and even at times pretend not to notice a person that you do not want to talk to on a college campus, but if you do that in a church it could mean your jobs because of the loss of favor with the people.
Secondly, one is able to see that length of relationships in churches and college campuses is often far different. When you are on a college campus, you are generally working off of a presupposition that everyone has only known everyone else for three or four years at the most. On the other hand, in church there may be families that have been a part of the church for several generations. By having longer lengths of time to work with, it can mean that strong ties are or can be made. Some of which might be helpful and glorifying, and others that are negative and destructive. When we are in a church setting, we are faced with the obligation to get along with all people, because most likely they are not going anywhere unless they move or gain a different job.
Lastly, looking at how responsibility plays a role in the difference in people relations in both settings, it can be noted that God has assigned a pastoral minister to these people. As a pastor is called to work with a congregation, they take on the responsibility that God has placed these people into their care, and thus their physical and spiritual well being is in their hands. Pastors cannot run and hide from those that are entrusted into their care, and thus church relationships can be very tough and yet a necessary aspect of their job.
In conclusion, it seems that relationships in churches are often far more difficult to work with and maintain because of the reasons that have been listed. As a pastor takes on responsibility for a group of people, they must be willing and adaptable to work with whomever it is that they have been given to work with and minister too. God loves all humanity, and He calls ministers to provide spiritual guidance for all people no matter if they are annoying or not. Thus it seems that church relationships are far more difficult than college campus ones due to their length, responsibility level, and proximity in living area.
Week Six – Campus vs. Church – David
Discuss the difference between getting along with college students compared to getting along with people within the church.
-I am a little confused on how to answer this question, because, to me, the “college crowd” and the “church crowd” could be the same thing.
Campus vs. Church
1. In college I am living with people I am passing by people every hour of the day. In a church I am not going to be living with people or around them all the time.
2. It will be different in the church setting in the future, because I will be in a leadership position, a Pastor. Whereas now in college I am just “one-of-the bunch”.
3.People on campus are young and open to new ideas and change, whereas people in the church traditionally like things to stay the way they are.
4. Here at college most of the people are my age, and everybody else is older and in position of authority of me… where in church I will be with people of all ages, and I will have the position of authority.
-I am a little confused on how to answer this question, because, to me, the “college crowd” and the “church crowd” could be the same thing.
Campus vs. Church
1. In college I am living with people I am passing by people every hour of the day. In a church I am not going to be living with people or around them all the time.
2. It will be different in the church setting in the future, because I will be in a leadership position, a Pastor. Whereas now in college I am just “one-of-the bunch”.
3.People on campus are young and open to new ideas and change, whereas people in the church traditionally like things to stay the way they are.
4. Here at college most of the people are my age, and everybody else is older and in position of authority of me… where in church I will be with people of all ages, and I will have the position of authority.
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
Week 7 - Tues. - Josh
Week 7
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/22/09
Church conflict story:
A youth pastor was on his way to a concert when he came across a road block. That entire side of the interstate was blocked, leaving them with nowhere to go. Most of the traffic was going across the median to the exit on the other side. Now the youth pastor new that this exit would take him to the concert, so he decided to do what the rest of traffic was doing. As the Pastor when across the median in the van with fifteen kids on board, it got stuck in the mud. So he called for a wrecker to pull them out and sent the fifteen kids and two sponsors up the exit to wait at a restaurant. The wrecker got the van pulled out and they load the kids back up and headed out.
The next week the youth pastor told the senior pastor what had transpired over the weekend. The youth pastor paid for the wrecker himself since he felt it was his own doing that got them stuck. So the issue was resolved. I few weeks later a trustee was doing maintenance on the van and found mud stuck under the front bumper. He got very upset about this and wrote a report to the church board about how people are abusing church property. This created conflict between the trustees, the senior pastor, the board, and the youth pastor.
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/22/09
Church conflict story:
A youth pastor was on his way to a concert when he came across a road block. That entire side of the interstate was blocked, leaving them with nowhere to go. Most of the traffic was going across the median to the exit on the other side. Now the youth pastor new that this exit would take him to the concert, so he decided to do what the rest of traffic was doing. As the Pastor when across the median in the van with fifteen kids on board, it got stuck in the mud. So he called for a wrecker to pull them out and sent the fifteen kids and two sponsors up the exit to wait at a restaurant. The wrecker got the van pulled out and they load the kids back up and headed out.
The next week the youth pastor told the senior pastor what had transpired over the weekend. The youth pastor paid for the wrecker himself since he felt it was his own doing that got them stuck. So the issue was resolved. I few weeks later a trustee was doing maintenance on the van and found mud stuck under the front bumper. He got very upset about this and wrote a report to the church board about how people are abusing church property. This created conflict between the trustees, the senior pastor, the board, and the youth pastor.
Monday, February 23, 2009
Week Six – Church Conflict Story – David
Church Conflict Story
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Story in Board Meeting
Pastor John Walton explains a conflict he had in a board meeting in dealing with the mission’s budget. In the meeting, the question was raised, “why is the goal for the faith promise more than the projected income?” for example, The Faith Promise’s projected income is $20,000 and the set goal to reach $30,000. This leaves $10,000 floating somewhere, and the conflict is figuring out where that money is going to come from.
So the questions arise… “How are we going to make up the $10,000? Do we reduce the goal to meet the projected income?”
One side argues that the mission’s board wants to set the goal at $30,000 and it should stay that way because it is called a “Faith Promise”, therefore by faith we need to keep it at $30,000 and trust God to bring in the other $10,000 we need.” On the other side there is an accountant, who thinks and deals with numbers, and he says that we can not do that because $10,000 is going to have to come out of thin air.”
There was a discussion to what the faith promise is going to be and that there is a choice that has to be made; either approve it or not approve it... The board did pass to go with the goal; agreeing that it is a faith promise, and knowing that we have to trust that God will provide what we need.
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Story in Board Meeting
Pastor John Walton explains a conflict he had in a board meeting in dealing with the mission’s budget. In the meeting, the question was raised, “why is the goal for the faith promise more than the projected income?” for example, The Faith Promise’s projected income is $20,000 and the set goal to reach $30,000. This leaves $10,000 floating somewhere, and the conflict is figuring out where that money is going to come from.
So the questions arise… “How are we going to make up the $10,000? Do we reduce the goal to meet the projected income?”
One side argues that the mission’s board wants to set the goal at $30,000 and it should stay that way because it is called a “Faith Promise”, therefore by faith we need to keep it at $30,000 and trust God to bring in the other $10,000 we need.” On the other side there is an accountant, who thinks and deals with numbers, and he says that we can not do that because $10,000 is going to have to come out of thin air.”
There was a discussion to what the faith promise is going to be and that there is a choice that has to be made; either approve it or not approve it... The board did pass to go with the goal; agreeing that it is a faith promise, and knowing that we have to trust that God will provide what we need.
Week #7 Anton Folz Feb 23rd Church Conflict Story
Week 7 Church Conflict Story
Anton Folz
Feb 23rd, 09
1. Rev. Brad Terhune, after the Sunday Morning service on Feb 22nd
2. The Toilet Filled with Concrete
Rev. Brad shared a story that he knew of a local youth pastor that had been involved in a church conflict. The story is that the youth pastor was doing a fundraiser, and they had poured concrete into the base and back of a toilet to make it super heavy. They then announced that the fundraiser would be conducted in a way that it a member of the church wished to not have the toilet placed in their yard, then they would have to buy toilet insurance, AKA Concrete Poddy insurance.
One of the members of the board, the vice chair to be exact, did not buy insurance for the toilet protection. Consequently, the toilet was delivered and placed in the lawn of this individual, which upset the man greatly. He and a friend moved the toilet by pickup truck to the church and left it there. The Youth pastor then took the toilet back to the house and hooked it up to the man’s chimney on his house and left it there, to moved when they bought the removal service.
This brought a great deal of tension and conflict between the Senior Pastor, the youth Pastor, the board, and the church members that also knew what was going on. What and how would you resolve this?
Anton Folz
Feb 23rd, 09
1. Rev. Brad Terhune, after the Sunday Morning service on Feb 22nd
2. The Toilet Filled with Concrete
Rev. Brad shared a story that he knew of a local youth pastor that had been involved in a church conflict. The story is that the youth pastor was doing a fundraiser, and they had poured concrete into the base and back of a toilet to make it super heavy. They then announced that the fundraiser would be conducted in a way that it a member of the church wished to not have the toilet placed in their yard, then they would have to buy toilet insurance, AKA Concrete Poddy insurance.
One of the members of the board, the vice chair to be exact, did not buy insurance for the toilet protection. Consequently, the toilet was delivered and placed in the lawn of this individual, which upset the man greatly. He and a friend moved the toilet by pickup truck to the church and left it there. The Youth pastor then took the toilet back to the house and hooked it up to the man’s chimney on his house and left it there, to moved when they bought the removal service.
This brought a great deal of tension and conflict between the Senior Pastor, the youth Pastor, the board, and the church members that also knew what was going on. What and how would you resolve this?
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