Week 7 – Thursday
2/26/09
People – Campus vs. Church
I am thinking about the difference between getting along with people at college and getting along with people in a church, and I am getting a little nervous. Things are going to be very different next year. Anyway the first differences I see are:
1) At college everyone is my peer. That will not be the case when working in a church setting, in fact when working with youth ministry most people will be dramatically younger (the students) or dramatically older (sponsors, board, other pastors, parents of students). The people that I hope will bend to my leadership over the youth ministry will have been around the block a few more times than I have; they will know more about life than I do. (Hopefully being married already will level the field a few millimeters in their eyes).
2) At college those over me are paid to help me. Here at IWU I pay a nice big tuition, and a portion of that tuition then goes into my professor’s pockets. In return I get their time, their knowledge, their resources, and their patience. (Not saying you are only patient because of the money.) In the world after college the pastors and parents are not paid to look out for my development, to do their best to make sure I succeed. I am expected to succeed because they pay me.
3) At college the niceties only need to last four year. Despite the expected short life span of youth pastors, you have to prepare your relationships for the long haul. When you meet someone at college that you don’t like but are forced to work with it is usually just for a short stint of a project or a semester class, and at the most, they may follow you around for the four years you attend. At a church, those people you don’t like may be there the entire life of your ministry. Plus, as the pastor you are expected to meet all their annoying qualities with grace, patience, and the love of God (even those only God could love.) relationships have to go beyond niceties and develop into a ministry with others that edify not only them, but your own life.
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Week 7: Church vs. Campus>>>Trenton Prieshoff
1. I think the most blatant difference is the age gap. On campus, we have very few interactions with anyone very much older or very much younger than us. In church, however, we will need to be adept at communicating with everyone, from the very elderly to the smallest children.
2. Another one which is very closely related to the first is that on campus we are around people who have many of the same views and ideals as us. While we might all disagree about how to go about doing anything, because we are from the same generation, we generally agree on several key distinctives of the postmodern generation (ie, evangelism should not be forced and needs to involve relationship, tolerance and peace are of utmost importance) In the church, we will confront people of many worldviews, even ones we don't yet understand as the next generation is coming up.
3. Shared experience is another. On campus, we can (if we wanted to) strike up a conversation with anyone because if nothing else, we all have very specific shared experiences (ie, we don't like Baldwin, McConn is great, chapel was alright today, homework, professors, living in the dorms, UNV-180, etc.). In the church, we do not spend every waking moment with the same groups of people. We have to be very deliberate in creating shared experiences in order to have the same comeraderie.
4. On campus, there is a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. Because it is a generally small campus, you can't avoid someone you have a problem with forever. In the church, there is also a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. However, because of the limited interaction, that conflict can brew much longer to a point that when it finally does explode, it is nearly impossible to manage.
5. A common element is this: People are people. If you are bad at confronting people now, you will be bad at it in the church. If you cannot mediate conflict now, you will not be able to mediate it in the church. Everyone likes free food and everyone likes a chance to get out.
2. Another one which is very closely related to the first is that on campus we are around people who have many of the same views and ideals as us. While we might all disagree about how to go about doing anything, because we are from the same generation, we generally agree on several key distinctives of the postmodern generation (ie, evangelism should not be forced and needs to involve relationship, tolerance and peace are of utmost importance) In the church, we will confront people of many worldviews, even ones we don't yet understand as the next generation is coming up.
3. Shared experience is another. On campus, we can (if we wanted to) strike up a conversation with anyone because if nothing else, we all have very specific shared experiences (ie, we don't like Baldwin, McConn is great, chapel was alright today, homework, professors, living in the dorms, UNV-180, etc.). In the church, we do not spend every waking moment with the same groups of people. We have to be very deliberate in creating shared experiences in order to have the same comeraderie.
4. On campus, there is a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. Because it is a generally small campus, you can't avoid someone you have a problem with forever. In the church, there is also a lot of drama and conflict flares up quickly. However, because of the limited interaction, that conflict can brew much longer to a point that when it finally does explode, it is nearly impossible to manage.
5. A common element is this: People are people. If you are bad at confronting people now, you will be bad at it in the church. If you cannot mediate conflict now, you will not be able to mediate it in the church. Everyone likes free food and everyone likes a chance to get out.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Week 7 Essay - People - Church VS. Campus
Week 7 Essay – People – Campus VS. Church
Feb 26th, 09 Anton Folz
Within college and church people involvement, there are main key areas in which the two differ. Three areas in which one is able to clearly see how relationship people on a college campus is far different than that of church relationships would be in the areas of proximity, length of relationship, and responsibility. In each of these three areas, one may find it much harder to “get along with” people in the church, than it ever was to get along with the people that you attended college with. Although there may be some in your college that also attend the church that you work at, that does not negate the fact that there are some large barriers or mental blocks that one is going to have to be able to understand that get over if they want to be effective and last in fulltime ministry.
Looking first at proximity of relationships, one is able to recognize that while they might be living in a rather small community of college students on a campus, they may be able to avoid people that are hard to get along with even easier and with less consequent than that of a person on staff at a church. Once you are in a church ministering, you are connected to those people that have been entrusted into you care, and you are not able to simply avoid them as you would someone that you disliked on a college campus. It is easy to blend in, and even at times pretend not to notice a person that you do not want to talk to on a college campus, but if you do that in a church it could mean your jobs because of the loss of favor with the people.
Secondly, one is able to see that length of relationships in churches and college campuses is often far different. When you are on a college campus, you are generally working off of a presupposition that everyone has only known everyone else for three or four years at the most. On the other hand, in church there may be families that have been a part of the church for several generations. By having longer lengths of time to work with, it can mean that strong ties are or can be made. Some of which might be helpful and glorifying, and others that are negative and destructive. When we are in a church setting, we are faced with the obligation to get along with all people, because most likely they are not going anywhere unless they move or gain a different job.
Lastly, looking at how responsibility plays a role in the difference in people relations in both settings, it can be noted that God has assigned a pastoral minister to these people. As a pastor is called to work with a congregation, they take on the responsibility that God has placed these people into their care, and thus their physical and spiritual well being is in their hands. Pastors cannot run and hide from those that are entrusted into their care, and thus church relationships can be very tough and yet a necessary aspect of their job.
In conclusion, it seems that relationships in churches are often far more difficult to work with and maintain because of the reasons that have been listed. As a pastor takes on responsibility for a group of people, they must be willing and adaptable to work with whomever it is that they have been given to work with and minister too. God loves all humanity, and He calls ministers to provide spiritual guidance for all people no matter if they are annoying or not. Thus it seems that church relationships are far more difficult than college campus ones due to their length, responsibility level, and proximity in living area.
Feb 26th, 09 Anton Folz
Within college and church people involvement, there are main key areas in which the two differ. Three areas in which one is able to clearly see how relationship people on a college campus is far different than that of church relationships would be in the areas of proximity, length of relationship, and responsibility. In each of these three areas, one may find it much harder to “get along with” people in the church, than it ever was to get along with the people that you attended college with. Although there may be some in your college that also attend the church that you work at, that does not negate the fact that there are some large barriers or mental blocks that one is going to have to be able to understand that get over if they want to be effective and last in fulltime ministry.
Looking first at proximity of relationships, one is able to recognize that while they might be living in a rather small community of college students on a campus, they may be able to avoid people that are hard to get along with even easier and with less consequent than that of a person on staff at a church. Once you are in a church ministering, you are connected to those people that have been entrusted into you care, and you are not able to simply avoid them as you would someone that you disliked on a college campus. It is easy to blend in, and even at times pretend not to notice a person that you do not want to talk to on a college campus, but if you do that in a church it could mean your jobs because of the loss of favor with the people.
Secondly, one is able to see that length of relationships in churches and college campuses is often far different. When you are on a college campus, you are generally working off of a presupposition that everyone has only known everyone else for three or four years at the most. On the other hand, in church there may be families that have been a part of the church for several generations. By having longer lengths of time to work with, it can mean that strong ties are or can be made. Some of which might be helpful and glorifying, and others that are negative and destructive. When we are in a church setting, we are faced with the obligation to get along with all people, because most likely they are not going anywhere unless they move or gain a different job.
Lastly, looking at how responsibility plays a role in the difference in people relations in both settings, it can be noted that God has assigned a pastoral minister to these people. As a pastor is called to work with a congregation, they take on the responsibility that God has placed these people into their care, and thus their physical and spiritual well being is in their hands. Pastors cannot run and hide from those that are entrusted into their care, and thus church relationships can be very tough and yet a necessary aspect of their job.
In conclusion, it seems that relationships in churches are often far more difficult to work with and maintain because of the reasons that have been listed. As a pastor takes on responsibility for a group of people, they must be willing and adaptable to work with whomever it is that they have been given to work with and minister too. God loves all humanity, and He calls ministers to provide spiritual guidance for all people no matter if they are annoying or not. Thus it seems that church relationships are far more difficult than college campus ones due to their length, responsibility level, and proximity in living area.
Week Six – Campus vs. Church – David
Discuss the difference between getting along with college students compared to getting along with people within the church.
-I am a little confused on how to answer this question, because, to me, the “college crowd” and the “church crowd” could be the same thing.
Campus vs. Church
1. In college I am living with people I am passing by people every hour of the day. In a church I am not going to be living with people or around them all the time.
2. It will be different in the church setting in the future, because I will be in a leadership position, a Pastor. Whereas now in college I am just “one-of-the bunch”.
3.People on campus are young and open to new ideas and change, whereas people in the church traditionally like things to stay the way they are.
4. Here at college most of the people are my age, and everybody else is older and in position of authority of me… where in church I will be with people of all ages, and I will have the position of authority.
-I am a little confused on how to answer this question, because, to me, the “college crowd” and the “church crowd” could be the same thing.
Campus vs. Church
1. In college I am living with people I am passing by people every hour of the day. In a church I am not going to be living with people or around them all the time.
2. It will be different in the church setting in the future, because I will be in a leadership position, a Pastor. Whereas now in college I am just “one-of-the bunch”.
3.People on campus are young and open to new ideas and change, whereas people in the church traditionally like things to stay the way they are.
4. Here at college most of the people are my age, and everybody else is older and in position of authority of me… where in church I will be with people of all ages, and I will have the position of authority.
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
Week 7 - Tues. - Josh
Week 7
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/22/09
Church conflict story:
A youth pastor was on his way to a concert when he came across a road block. That entire side of the interstate was blocked, leaving them with nowhere to go. Most of the traffic was going across the median to the exit on the other side. Now the youth pastor new that this exit would take him to the concert, so he decided to do what the rest of traffic was doing. As the Pastor when across the median in the van with fifteen kids on board, it got stuck in the mud. So he called for a wrecker to pull them out and sent the fifteen kids and two sponsors up the exit to wait at a restaurant. The wrecker got the van pulled out and they load the kids back up and headed out.
The next week the youth pastor told the senior pastor what had transpired over the weekend. The youth pastor paid for the wrecker himself since he felt it was his own doing that got them stuck. So the issue was resolved. I few weeks later a trustee was doing maintenance on the van and found mud stuck under the front bumper. He got very upset about this and wrote a report to the church board about how people are abusing church property. This created conflict between the trustees, the senior pastor, the board, and the youth pastor.
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/22/09
Church conflict story:
A youth pastor was on his way to a concert when he came across a road block. That entire side of the interstate was blocked, leaving them with nowhere to go. Most of the traffic was going across the median to the exit on the other side. Now the youth pastor new that this exit would take him to the concert, so he decided to do what the rest of traffic was doing. As the Pastor when across the median in the van with fifteen kids on board, it got stuck in the mud. So he called for a wrecker to pull them out and sent the fifteen kids and two sponsors up the exit to wait at a restaurant. The wrecker got the van pulled out and they load the kids back up and headed out.
The next week the youth pastor told the senior pastor what had transpired over the weekend. The youth pastor paid for the wrecker himself since he felt it was his own doing that got them stuck. So the issue was resolved. I few weeks later a trustee was doing maintenance on the van and found mud stuck under the front bumper. He got very upset about this and wrote a report to the church board about how people are abusing church property. This created conflict between the trustees, the senior pastor, the board, and the youth pastor.
Monday, February 23, 2009
Week Six – Church Conflict Story – David
Church Conflict Story
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Story in Board Meeting
Pastor John Walton explains a conflict he had in a board meeting in dealing with the mission’s budget. In the meeting, the question was raised, “why is the goal for the faith promise more than the projected income?” for example, The Faith Promise’s projected income is $20,000 and the set goal to reach $30,000. This leaves $10,000 floating somewhere, and the conflict is figuring out where that money is going to come from.
So the questions arise… “How are we going to make up the $10,000? Do we reduce the goal to meet the projected income?”
One side argues that the mission’s board wants to set the goal at $30,000 and it should stay that way because it is called a “Faith Promise”, therefore by faith we need to keep it at $30,000 and trust God to bring in the other $10,000 we need.” On the other side there is an accountant, who thinks and deals with numbers, and he says that we can not do that because $10,000 is going to have to come out of thin air.”
There was a discussion to what the faith promise is going to be and that there is a choice that has to be made; either approve it or not approve it... The board did pass to go with the goal; agreeing that it is a faith promise, and knowing that we have to trust that God will provide what we need.
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Story in Board Meeting
Pastor John Walton explains a conflict he had in a board meeting in dealing with the mission’s budget. In the meeting, the question was raised, “why is the goal for the faith promise more than the projected income?” for example, The Faith Promise’s projected income is $20,000 and the set goal to reach $30,000. This leaves $10,000 floating somewhere, and the conflict is figuring out where that money is going to come from.
So the questions arise… “How are we going to make up the $10,000? Do we reduce the goal to meet the projected income?”
One side argues that the mission’s board wants to set the goal at $30,000 and it should stay that way because it is called a “Faith Promise”, therefore by faith we need to keep it at $30,000 and trust God to bring in the other $10,000 we need.” On the other side there is an accountant, who thinks and deals with numbers, and he says that we can not do that because $10,000 is going to have to come out of thin air.”
There was a discussion to what the faith promise is going to be and that there is a choice that has to be made; either approve it or not approve it... The board did pass to go with the goal; agreeing that it is a faith promise, and knowing that we have to trust that God will provide what we need.
Week #7 Anton Folz Feb 23rd Church Conflict Story
Week 7 Church Conflict Story
Anton Folz
Feb 23rd, 09
1. Rev. Brad Terhune, after the Sunday Morning service on Feb 22nd
2. The Toilet Filled with Concrete
Rev. Brad shared a story that he knew of a local youth pastor that had been involved in a church conflict. The story is that the youth pastor was doing a fundraiser, and they had poured concrete into the base and back of a toilet to make it super heavy. They then announced that the fundraiser would be conducted in a way that it a member of the church wished to not have the toilet placed in their yard, then they would have to buy toilet insurance, AKA Concrete Poddy insurance.
One of the members of the board, the vice chair to be exact, did not buy insurance for the toilet protection. Consequently, the toilet was delivered and placed in the lawn of this individual, which upset the man greatly. He and a friend moved the toilet by pickup truck to the church and left it there. The Youth pastor then took the toilet back to the house and hooked it up to the man’s chimney on his house and left it there, to moved when they bought the removal service.
This brought a great deal of tension and conflict between the Senior Pastor, the youth Pastor, the board, and the church members that also knew what was going on. What and how would you resolve this?
Anton Folz
Feb 23rd, 09
1. Rev. Brad Terhune, after the Sunday Morning service on Feb 22nd
2. The Toilet Filled with Concrete
Rev. Brad shared a story that he knew of a local youth pastor that had been involved in a church conflict. The story is that the youth pastor was doing a fundraiser, and they had poured concrete into the base and back of a toilet to make it super heavy. They then announced that the fundraiser would be conducted in a way that it a member of the church wished to not have the toilet placed in their yard, then they would have to buy toilet insurance, AKA Concrete Poddy insurance.
One of the members of the board, the vice chair to be exact, did not buy insurance for the toilet protection. Consequently, the toilet was delivered and placed in the lawn of this individual, which upset the man greatly. He and a friend moved the toilet by pickup truck to the church and left it there. The Youth pastor then took the toilet back to the house and hooked it up to the man’s chimney on his house and left it there, to moved when they bought the removal service.
This brought a great deal of tension and conflict between the Senior Pastor, the youth Pastor, the board, and the church members that also knew what was going on. What and how would you resolve this?
Sunday, February 22, 2009
Week 7: Church Conflict Story>>>Trenton Prieshoff
Interviewing Pastor Ryan McCarty
February 22, 2008
Nearly all conflict comes from someone feeling offended, according to Pastor. Typically, when the conflict actually comes up, it is because of ten or twelve offenses. In this particular instance, which it hurt him to relate because it did not end well, a woman was leading a dance ministry for the young girls of the church. She complained to Pastor that it was foolish that the church send as much money as it does to its sister church in Zambia when the girls in their own church cannot participate in the dance ministry because they cannot afford outfits. Her reasoning seemed to be that these inner city girls have a chance to do something that will get them off the street and will help them to express themselves to God in a unique way, but when they can't afford to buy costumes, they can't be a part of this.
Pastor said he and his wife, Katara, first reestablished in their minds what the mission of the church is and then met the woman together (because you don't meet with someone of the opposite sex alone). They thanked her for all the work she did with the dance ministry and made note of the positive effects of the ministry for those girls. They very clearly reaffirmed the mission of the church, that God's House Ministries is about using the money that comes in for the community and for the world, not to build itself up (I'm paraphrasing; he stated it better). They encouraged her to do a fundraiser specifically for the dance team. She did and the fundraiser was a great success and so was the dance ministry.
As Pastor said, though, conflict usually doesn't come up until there are ten or twelve "offenses." This particular woman, had many personal disagreements with Ryan and Katara and was not willing to submit to the kind of mission the church as a whole had determined to be about and left a few years later.
February 22, 2008
Nearly all conflict comes from someone feeling offended, according to Pastor. Typically, when the conflict actually comes up, it is because of ten or twelve offenses. In this particular instance, which it hurt him to relate because it did not end well, a woman was leading a dance ministry for the young girls of the church. She complained to Pastor that it was foolish that the church send as much money as it does to its sister church in Zambia when the girls in their own church cannot participate in the dance ministry because they cannot afford outfits. Her reasoning seemed to be that these inner city girls have a chance to do something that will get them off the street and will help them to express themselves to God in a unique way, but when they can't afford to buy costumes, they can't be a part of this.
Pastor said he and his wife, Katara, first reestablished in their minds what the mission of the church is and then met the woman together (because you don't meet with someone of the opposite sex alone). They thanked her for all the work she did with the dance ministry and made note of the positive effects of the ministry for those girls. They very clearly reaffirmed the mission of the church, that God's House Ministries is about using the money that comes in for the community and for the world, not to build itself up (I'm paraphrasing; he stated it better). They encouraged her to do a fundraiser specifically for the dance team. She did and the fundraiser was a great success and so was the dance ministry.
As Pastor said, though, conflict usually doesn't come up until there are ten or twelve "offenses." This particular woman, had many personal disagreements with Ryan and Katara and was not willing to submit to the kind of mission the church as a whole had determined to be about and left a few years later.
Thursday, February 19, 2009
Week 6 - Thurs. - Josh
2/19 - Thurs
Office Work
I see this shift as a negative one. One that may have worked with a baby boomer generation that may want to “see” long hours put in at the office. But in a generation that is driven more on inter-personal and social connections. Slaving to a time-clock will not work in ministry as well as being out and building relationships with people. Ministers should spend as little time as possible holed-up in an “office” or “study”. While time alone to meditate and prepare is of the utmost importance, as much time as possible should be spent outside the church with people. This is especially true in an assistant pastor role when there is less administrative work and you don’t necessarily have to prepare for the Sunday morning sermon. In the past it may have been necessary for pastoral staff, especially the senior pastor, to be in the church office during regular hours so that others knew were to find them, but in a day of cell phones and email, a pastor is freer to be mobile and still remain in contact with other staff and parishioners.
I would hope to spend 50-60 hours a week “doing church stuff” with 20% administrative, 20% preparing, and 60% in relational ministry.
Office Work
I see this shift as a negative one. One that may have worked with a baby boomer generation that may want to “see” long hours put in at the office. But in a generation that is driven more on inter-personal and social connections. Slaving to a time-clock will not work in ministry as well as being out and building relationships with people. Ministers should spend as little time as possible holed-up in an “office” or “study”. While time alone to meditate and prepare is of the utmost importance, as much time as possible should be spent outside the church with people. This is especially true in an assistant pastor role when there is less administrative work and you don’t necessarily have to prepare for the Sunday morning sermon. In the past it may have been necessary for pastoral staff, especially the senior pastor, to be in the church office during regular hours so that others knew were to find them, but in a day of cell phones and email, a pastor is freer to be mobile and still remain in contact with other staff and parishioners.
I would hope to spend 50-60 hours a week “doing church stuff” with 20% administrative, 20% preparing, and 60% in relational ministry.
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
Week 6: Office Work>>>Trenton Prieshoff
Sometimes I wonder if the development of "office work" was simply to help pastors feel like they have normal jobs. I'm being sarcastic in saying that, but my feeling is that this change is not for the best. Having worked in a church office, I personally feel like it is easy to hide from "calling on people" by hiding behind office hours. I realize others may not have that problem, but the placement in an office carries with it certain obligations which make it easy to feel that you are not free to be with people or free to do other parts of your duties.
The administrative work done in the office is necessary, but I feel the shift with office work is not a mere changing of titles. The shift is diluting the role of the minister from being a very spiritual position by divine appointment to being just another office job with a different product.
In an ideal world...I would want to spend my week in church work between studying and having lunches and other meetings with students to teach and counsel. Like David said, I am planning on most likely being bi-vocational and spending only a few days a week in the office for meeting with the other staff and to use the resources of the church which I can't access from home though, I wouldn't anticipate spending time at home either. I feel I do studying best in coffee shops and restaurants where there are people around but aren't particularly distracting. That is how my pastor does most of his preparation during the week.
The administrative work done in the office is necessary, but I feel the shift with office work is not a mere changing of titles. The shift is diluting the role of the minister from being a very spiritual position by divine appointment to being just another office job with a different product.
In an ideal world...I would want to spend my week in church work between studying and having lunches and other meetings with students to teach and counsel. Like David said, I am planning on most likely being bi-vocational and spending only a few days a week in the office for meeting with the other staff and to use the resources of the church which I can't access from home though, I wouldn't anticipate spending time at home either. I feel I do studying best in coffee shops and restaurants where there are people around but aren't particularly distracting. That is how my pastor does most of his preparation during the week.
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
Week Five – Office Work – David
Office Work
How would you want to spend your week in church work? How many hours a week and doing what?
I kind of see myself working as a bi-vocational youth pastor. I don’t know yet, but I have this Multi-level marketing business, and I am getting money, and I think that I could do real far with it. And my dream is that I can support myself with the income from it, and then give back to the church what they give me.
I just sent out my Résumés, and recently I was confronted with the opportunity to take up a bi-vocational job as a youth pastor. I have been thinking about it a lot, but the location is just not where my fiancé and I want to be. The job description entails working 20 hours a week (which we all know means 30 hours a week), and I am required to have a Wednesday service and a Sunday morning service.
As I am answering the questions above, I am answering with the mind-set of only working 20 hours a week. My week in church work, besides youth group on Wednesdays and Sunday school on Sundays, would most likely be full of visitations with a little time spent in the office. I would probably only be in the office twice a week and then do most of my sermons and studies at home.
How would you want to spend your week in church work? How many hours a week and doing what?
I kind of see myself working as a bi-vocational youth pastor. I don’t know yet, but I have this Multi-level marketing business, and I am getting money, and I think that I could do real far with it. And my dream is that I can support myself with the income from it, and then give back to the church what they give me.
I just sent out my Résumés, and recently I was confronted with the opportunity to take up a bi-vocational job as a youth pastor. I have been thinking about it a lot, but the location is just not where my fiancé and I want to be. The job description entails working 20 hours a week (which we all know means 30 hours a week), and I am required to have a Wednesday service and a Sunday morning service.
As I am answering the questions above, I am answering with the mind-set of only working 20 hours a week. My week in church work, besides youth group on Wednesdays and Sunday school on Sundays, would most likely be full of visitations with a little time spent in the office. I would probably only be in the office twice a week and then do most of my sermons and studies at home.
Week 6 - Tues. - Josh
Week 6
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/8/09
1)Become the leaders of the committees
a.Only if you believe in the committee be part of the committee, be a driving force behind it, not necessarily the chairman
2)If asked to be on committee; ask…
a.Expectations
b.How often they meet
c.How long meetings go
d.Typical agenda of meeting
i.Bold enough to push an agenda if they don’t have one
3)Secretary to stop random people from coming through the office, interruptions on a whim
a.People are more important than programs
b.Sometimes just need time to finish thoughts / 10 min buffer
i.Have stopping points
4)Be upfront with people when you have time constraints so they know what of your time they have.
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/8/09
1)Become the leaders of the committees
a.Only if you believe in the committee be part of the committee, be a driving force behind it, not necessarily the chairman
2)If asked to be on committee; ask…
a.Expectations
b.How often they meet
c.How long meetings go
d.Typical agenda of meeting
i.Bold enough to push an agenda if they don’t have one
3)Secretary to stop random people from coming through the office, interruptions on a whim
a.People are more important than programs
b.Sometimes just need time to finish thoughts / 10 min buffer
i.Have stopping points
4)Be upfront with people when you have time constraints so they know what of your time they have.
Monday, February 16, 2009
Week 6: Time-Management Advice>>>Trenton
Time Management Advice
God's House Ministries
I interviewed Pastor Ryan McCarty, the Senior Pastor
February 16, 2009
Boundaries:
Pastor told me he is not the best person to ask about this. I told him he is the best person to ask. The way God's House is structured, he is able to delegate so many tasks to others. He told me when he and his wife started, they were a part of everything. Now he said, the only thing he is a part of regularly is Sunday Morning worship. When people want counseling (which he defined as wanting multiple sessions of his time as opposed to just having a question answered) he refers them to a friend of his who is a counselor. Otherwise, so many people are involved in small groups, they just bring issues and discussions to their small group. That small group structure is exactly why God's House manages to remain effective with so little staff and so many people on so small a budget. He has very clear boundaries.
Management Advice:
1. Know your strengths: Pastor said he is not good at counseling and therefore spends little of his time doing it. He refers people to a professional counselor who is a good friend of his and who he trusts greatly.
2. Know your priorities: Pastor told me how much he makes spending time with his family a huge priority. When he is working some 30 hours at the medical office and then serving as a pastor, he is forced to be very strict with his schedule and his priorities.
3. Delegate: He reiterated what Coach said: if someone else can do it better, they should do it; if someone else could learn to do it better than you, you should teach them.
God's House Ministries
I interviewed Pastor Ryan McCarty, the Senior Pastor
February 16, 2009
Boundaries:
Pastor told me he is not the best person to ask about this. I told him he is the best person to ask. The way God's House is structured, he is able to delegate so many tasks to others. He told me when he and his wife started, they were a part of everything. Now he said, the only thing he is a part of regularly is Sunday Morning worship. When people want counseling (which he defined as wanting multiple sessions of his time as opposed to just having a question answered) he refers them to a friend of his who is a counselor. Otherwise, so many people are involved in small groups, they just bring issues and discussions to their small group. That small group structure is exactly why God's House manages to remain effective with so little staff and so many people on so small a budget. He has very clear boundaries.
Management Advice:
1. Know your strengths: Pastor said he is not good at counseling and therefore spends little of his time doing it. He refers people to a professional counselor who is a good friend of his and who he trusts greatly.
2. Know your priorities: Pastor told me how much he makes spending time with his family a huge priority. When he is working some 30 hours at the medical office and then serving as a pastor, he is forced to be very strict with his schedule and his priorities.
3. Delegate: He reiterated what Coach said: if someone else can do it better, they should do it; if someone else could learn to do it better than you, you should teach them.
Week Five – Time Management Advice – David
Time Management Advice
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Boundaries:
The way Pastor John sets boundaries so that he is not controlled by people is by establishing some office hours to be available. He will screen his phone calls, or have the secretary screen them for him. If the person comes with a situation that is not within his field or area of expertise, he will send them to another pastor. Also if it is a subject is “over his head”, for example, homosexuality; he will send them to another pastor.
Management advice:
1. Know your job description and do it well. He said to focus on your responsibilities and not someone else’s. Know what it is you need to do, and do it when it needs to be done. If you do it on time, then you will not fall into the “last minute rush”.
2. Be organized, when he just started he was not organized, and he wasted a lot of time looking for thing and not knowing where things were in his office. He said that he would set down some important papers and not remember where he put it.
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Boundaries:
The way Pastor John sets boundaries so that he is not controlled by people is by establishing some office hours to be available. He will screen his phone calls, or have the secretary screen them for him. If the person comes with a situation that is not within his field or area of expertise, he will send them to another pastor. Also if it is a subject is “over his head”, for example, homosexuality; he will send them to another pastor.
Management advice:
1. Know your job description and do it well. He said to focus on your responsibilities and not someone else’s. Know what it is you need to do, and do it when it needs to be done. If you do it on time, then you will not fall into the “last minute rush”.
2. Be organized, when he just started he was not organized, and he wasted a lot of time looking for thing and not knowing where things were in his office. He said that he would set down some important papers and not remember where he put it.
Thursday, February 12, 2009
Week 4: People >>> Trenton Prieshoff
A principle our chapel speaker talked about yesterday (Wednesday, that is) is that we need to know people. It is not that we simply need to give more to charity; we need to know the people to whom we are giving. It is the same way with ministry. There is a lot of administration work in being a minister, but just as a business owner needs to know people so that he or she can provide a product they need and use, we need to know the people in our congregation (youth group) so that as we do all those administrative tasks, we have always in our mind WHO we are doing all those administrative tasks for.
Knowing people means setting time aside in our schedules to meet with people; individually for tea or for lunch, in groups by being a part of small group ministries and other events (You shouldn't always be the one leading those events, you also need to be a real person).
But the Church is not merely a business and it should not be run like one. While the principles are the same, the Church is divinely instituted to meet all sorts of needs. Therefor, as we approach this combination of administration and relationships, we must practice more than cleverness and wit, we must also draw near to God and submit to Him that it is for Him we are doing both of these.
Knowing people means setting time aside in our schedules to meet with people; individually for tea or for lunch, in groups by being a part of small group ministries and other events (You shouldn't always be the one leading those events, you also need to be a real person).
But the Church is not merely a business and it should not be run like one. While the principles are the same, the Church is divinely instituted to meet all sorts of needs. Therefor, as we approach this combination of administration and relationships, we must practice more than cleverness and wit, we must also draw near to God and submit to Him that it is for Him we are doing both of these.
Tuesday, February 10, 2009
Week Four – People – David
People: How can a minister leader do church administrations in a way that still focuses on PEOPLE?
First and foremost, the church administrators must know how to treat people and work alongside people. No matter how big the church is things need to be run as Christ would run them, which would be full of love, joy, and peace.
I believe that the church needs to stay away from being a business. And that the administration is run well with its focus on caring about the people. It is not just about the administrator who makes sure things run smoothly in the church, but about people; not only the staff, but the people that come in and out of the church. There must be a balance! It is super importance that the administrator does his or her job correctly, but they must know what it is like to be with people.
For example, my Dad works on the campus service at a big church called Northwoods Community Church, and he is in charge of the 4 volunteer groups. Well the church recently hired a new administrative leader who comes from a Marine background, and just does not understand the importance of relating to people. One night there was an instance where the Marine-administrator-dude came in and was not happy that dad was spending time with his volunteers and yelled at him. He said “if you are going to be chatting with these people, then you need to clock-out because we are not going to pay you to talk to people.” Well the Boss came in and said that this is his job and what he is supposed to do; and Rod’s (my Dad) teams are growing. See, the administrator did not understand the importance of relating to people; he was concerned about getting the job done.
First and foremost, the church administrators must know how to treat people and work alongside people. No matter how big the church is things need to be run as Christ would run them, which would be full of love, joy, and peace.
I believe that the church needs to stay away from being a business. And that the administration is run well with its focus on caring about the people. It is not just about the administrator who makes sure things run smoothly in the church, but about people; not only the staff, but the people that come in and out of the church. There must be a balance! It is super importance that the administrator does his or her job correctly, but they must know what it is like to be with people.
For example, my Dad works on the campus service at a big church called Northwoods Community Church, and he is in charge of the 4 volunteer groups. Well the church recently hired a new administrative leader who comes from a Marine background, and just does not understand the importance of relating to people. One night there was an instance where the Marine-administrator-dude came in and was not happy that dad was spending time with his volunteers and yelled at him. He said “if you are going to be chatting with these people, then you need to clock-out because we are not going to pay you to talk to people.” Well the Boss came in and said that this is his job and what he is supposed to do; and Rod’s (my Dad) teams are growing. See, the administrator did not understand the importance of relating to people; he was concerned about getting the job done.
Week 5 - Tues. - Josh
Week 5
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/8/09
1.)3-5 hours
2.)15 hours → huge administrative aspect (upward, website)
3.)8 hours
4.)7 hours
5.)Upward sports activities → 12 hour
Follow-up time → 2 hours
On call 24 hours a day (people before programs)
Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Rev. Brad Terhune 2/8/09
1.)3-5 hours
2.)15 hours → huge administrative aspect (upward, website)
3.)8 hours
4.)7 hours
5.)Upward sports activities → 12 hour
Follow-up time → 2 hours
On call 24 hours a day (people before programs)
Week 3: Attend a Board Meeting
--Trenton Prieshoff
God's House Ministries
about 3 hours
The decision-making model seems to be similar to the Quaker style. In all these meetings I have been to (I went to them all last semester as well), I never really heard any kind of "voting" on whether the church ought to do something or not. For the most part, someone brings up an idea and as long as they are willing to lead it themselves, no one objects. Even so, people weigh in their thoughts and support before the final "okay" is given.
Other decisions that involve everyone will be discussed in much the same way but as for the final decision, we look at if everyone agrees.
God's House Ministries
about 3 hours
The decision-making model seems to be similar to the Quaker style. In all these meetings I have been to (I went to them all last semester as well), I never really heard any kind of "voting" on whether the church ought to do something or not. For the most part, someone brings up an idea and as long as they are willing to lead it themselves, no one objects. Even so, people weigh in their thoughts and support before the final "okay" is given.
Other decisions that involve everyone will be discussed in much the same way but as for the final decision, we look at if everyone agrees.
Week 5: Hours Worked in Ministry
--Trenton Prieshoff
God's House Ministries
Interviewing Pastor Ryan McCarty
Study: 8+
Administative/Office Work: 6
Services: 3.5
People: 10
Working at the Clinic: 25
God's House Ministries
Interviewing Pastor Ryan McCarty
Study: 8+
Administative/Office Work: 6
Services: 3.5
People: 10
Working at the Clinic: 25
- As Anton said: there is always more to do. Some weeks meetings will take up all your time, or a crisis will hit and your time will be spent counseling and visiting, and still other times there will be a lot of clerical work to catch up on.
- Because Ryan is "bivocational" he spends a lot of time delegating tasks to others and connecting with them instead of doing them himself. The only reason GHM continues to be successful is because the laity have really taken up their charge and run with it.
- Because Ryan works at the Medical Clinic most of the day, he must be available in other ways. He relies on others to meet with people in small groups and he e-mails and texts frequently to arrange meeting times.
Monday, February 9, 2009
#3 Week Six Time Management Advice - Anton Folz
Feb 17th, 2009
Time Management Advice from Rev Brad Terhune
Interviewed;
Rev. Brad Terhune
Feb 8th, 2009 at Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Setting Boundaries; Pastor Brad gave three primary ways in which to set boundaries as a minister, they are as follows;
1) Become the leader of the committees if you are asked to be a part of one, and if the opportunity lends itself. Often times committees are what eat up the most time, so Brad suggested being the leader if you can so that the meetings flow well. Also a part of this must be that you have a genuine interest in the area of study or planning, and if you do not then maybe turn down the offer altogether.
2) When being asked to make commitments, whether to a committee or meeting of other sorts, ask what the responsibilities of being are part of the group or meeting is going to be, and then plan ahead. Ask what a typical agenda will look like to plan accordingly.
3) Have a secretary (if applicable) give you a notice that people have come to talk to you, then if you are in the middle of something, have then wait to complete the thought or e-mail and then give them your undivided attention. People are always more important than programming or whatever, but be productive and then give them your full attention.
Time Management Advice:
1) Know why you are coming into work. That way you know what to do, and do not waste time sitting around.
2) Know the priority of things to do for that day and week, maybe even month. When you have downtime, or things get done quicker than expected, then work on some of the smaller priority things that you know are on the back burner so to speak. Fill in the blank areas of the schedule with usefully and meaningful time with smaller projects.
3) Try and make a fifteen minute schedule for your week. This will allow you to utilize the time the best you can, and force you to see where time is being spent, maybe unnecessarily.
Time Management Advice from Rev Brad Terhune
Interviewed;
Rev. Brad Terhune
Feb 8th, 2009 at Lakeview Wesleyan Church
Setting Boundaries; Pastor Brad gave three primary ways in which to set boundaries as a minister, they are as follows;
1) Become the leader of the committees if you are asked to be a part of one, and if the opportunity lends itself. Often times committees are what eat up the most time, so Brad suggested being the leader if you can so that the meetings flow well. Also a part of this must be that you have a genuine interest in the area of study or planning, and if you do not then maybe turn down the offer altogether.
2) When being asked to make commitments, whether to a committee or meeting of other sorts, ask what the responsibilities of being are part of the group or meeting is going to be, and then plan ahead. Ask what a typical agenda will look like to plan accordingly.
3) Have a secretary (if applicable) give you a notice that people have come to talk to you, then if you are in the middle of something, have then wait to complete the thought or e-mail and then give them your undivided attention. People are always more important than programming or whatever, but be productive and then give them your full attention.
Time Management Advice:
1) Know why you are coming into work. That way you know what to do, and do not waste time sitting around.
2) Know the priority of things to do for that day and week, maybe even month. When you have downtime, or things get done quicker than expected, then work on some of the smaller priority things that you know are on the back burner so to speak. Fill in the blank areas of the schedule with usefully and meaningful time with smaller projects.
3) Try and make a fifteen minute schedule for your week. This will allow you to utilize the time the best you can, and force you to see where time is being spent, maybe unnecessarily.
#2 Week Five (Hours worked in Ministry) Anton Folz Feb 9th 2009
I, Anton, Interviewed Rev. Brad Terhune on Sunday Feb 8th, 2009. We met in the cafe' area of Lakeview Wesleyan Church.
Below are the results of our meeting together;
Time spent in an (average week)
1) Study (alone) 3-5 hours
2) Administrative/office 15 hours
3) Services 8 Hours
4) People 7 hours
5) hours spent on computer connecting with volunteers and other ministers 2 hours
Observations of the findings;
- There is often a good deal of change to one's schedule when you are a staff pastor such as Rev. Brad. Often times he will have a great deal of people/committee meetings, and the number here will shoot way up, but other weeks the office time will eat up much of his day
- There is always more to do. When you are a staff pastor at a larger church it is easy to get caught up doing many services and activities.
- Pastor Brad also made note that these office hours are not always consistent with a 8 to five job, because he is often on call from as early as 6:00am till 12:20 am at night.
Below are the results of our meeting together;
Time spent in an (average week)
1) Study (alone) 3-5 hours
2) Administrative/office 15 hours
3) Services 8 Hours
4) People 7 hours
5) hours spent on computer connecting with volunteers and other ministers 2 hours
Observations of the findings;
- There is often a good deal of change to one's schedule when you are a staff pastor such as Rev. Brad. Often times he will have a great deal of people/committee meetings, and the number here will shoot way up, but other weeks the office time will eat up much of his day
- There is always more to do. When you are a staff pastor at a larger church it is easy to get caught up doing many services and activities.
- Pastor Brad also made note that these office hours are not always consistent with a 8 to five job, because he is often on call from as early as 6:00am till 12:20 am at night.
Week Four – Hours Worked in Ministry – David
Hours Worked in Ministry
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Study: 10 hours
Administrative/Office: 20 hours
Services: 9 hours (includes worship practices and tech arts)
People: 6 hours
Visitations: 4 hours
Counseling: 2 hours
Observations:
Pastors really have a busy load.
Pastor John is working 50-hour weeks, how is he to spend time with family?
Brookhaven Wesleyan Church
I interviewed Pastor John Walton the assistant pastor
January 21, 2009
Study: 10 hours
Administrative/Office: 20 hours
Services: 9 hours (includes worship practices and tech arts)
People: 6 hours
Visitations: 4 hours
Counseling: 2 hours
Observations:
Pastors really have a busy load.
Pastor John is working 50-hour weeks, how is he to spend time with family?
Thursday, February 5, 2009
Week 3--Staff Report to Board-Trenton
Discuss what a staff member's report to a board should include and what it should accomplish.
What should such a report include?
I suppose the report should include as many aspects of the ministry being reported as possible including: budget and expenditures thus far, what kinds of expenses are perceived for the rest of the year, a list of all the programs and activities being run and a summary of the perceived impact of those programs and activities. Along with that summary, it would be good to include an extension of your own impressions as well as any comments received in regards to them. Those should be posted after the abbreviated summary so that the board can choose to get just a glimpse or to look into each one much further to get a better grasp on what it being done. Any resolved conflicts might be mentioned to show how people are coming on board with the ministry (but don't mention people by name), but the ones in process of being resolved should only be mentioned to the pastor or elders in more extreme cases.
What should all this accomplish?
It should allow the board first of all to know what you are doing with the time and resources they are giving you. Second, it should encourage them to see what is being accomplished. Third, it should inform them how they can be praying for you as a staff pastor and for each individual ministry. Fourth, it should invite their input on what is being done and what can be done to further the ministry of the church.
Trenton
What should such a report include?
I suppose the report should include as many aspects of the ministry being reported as possible including: budget and expenditures thus far, what kinds of expenses are perceived for the rest of the year, a list of all the programs and activities being run and a summary of the perceived impact of those programs and activities. Along with that summary, it would be good to include an extension of your own impressions as well as any comments received in regards to them. Those should be posted after the abbreviated summary so that the board can choose to get just a glimpse or to look into each one much further to get a better grasp on what it being done. Any resolved conflicts might be mentioned to show how people are coming on board with the ministry (but don't mention people by name), but the ones in process of being resolved should only be mentioned to the pastor or elders in more extreme cases.
What should all this accomplish?
It should allow the board first of all to know what you are doing with the time and resources they are giving you. Second, it should encourage them to see what is being accomplished. Third, it should inform them how they can be praying for you as a staff pastor and for each individual ministry. Fourth, it should invite their input on what is being done and what can be done to further the ministry of the church.
Trenton
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